Comments on: Only a Game

by: Rick

Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:07:56 +0000

I am unsure as to whether French opinion realises the extent of their debt - on this occasion to the masterly performance of the (English) referee in the France-New Zealand match. Resolutely, Mr Barnes was deaf to all attempts by the All Blacks to browbeat him. Only one other referee could have matched the Englishman, a Frenchman by the name of Jutge. Such crumbs of comfort are welcome.

by: Autolycus

Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:43:04 +0000

One can always find examples in political history to justify just about any prejudice. In Anglo-French relations over the last century or so, the French have perhaps seized on the disappointments that look like deceptions: Britain’s apparent dithering on the eve of WW1, complaints of not pulling their weight during it, Lloyd George’s grandiose commitment to perpetual postwar alliance dropped because of American isolationism, 1940 (enough said), de Gaulle’s suspicions of Churchill’s and Roosevelt’s manoeuvrings, blowing hot and cold at Suez, etc., etc.

Whereas French relations with Germany have rarely left room for illusions…

Which brings us back to your more recent theme on distrust!

by: Tim

Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:23:18 +0000

Three comments on the comments: firstly about the rules of rugby and their complexity, particularly the central idea that to go forwards you have to pass backwards. This particular rule caused much comment and confusion in the pre-World Cup French press. I have always thought of it as an extremely beautiful and intrinsically English concept, like having a head of state who has no power.
Secondly I see in today’s regional press that the commentators are saying that having played beautiful poetic rugby last Saturday, “the Blues are going to have to learn how to play like imbeciles if they are to match the English.” Clearly the English game has not changed much since I was in my school 3rd XV.
Thirdly the hereditary English thing: M. Sunbeam’s comment about the French really hating the Germans reminds me of something I was told by the French producer of a film I was making in France. He adored England and had spent a miserable War, aged 17 at the beginning and 22 at the end, shuttling backwards and forwards between the two countries. “The French will always love the Germans more than the English,” he told me, “even though in less than 70 years one has invaded their country three times , raped their women and systematically shot their young men while the other has, at great personal sacrifice, twice come to their rescue. I think,” he added sadly, “we must enjoy being beaten.” Probably the bitterness of old age mixed with an excellent wine. Probably the truth is everyone sees “the other” as a potential enemy

by: dédé sunbeam

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:30:15 +0000

“hereditary enemy”. I am middle-aged, and have never heard in France the expression about the British, but about the Germans. My grand father, who fought in the guerre de 14, always talked about them referring to “les boches”. He talked of the British as “la perfide Albion”, but never with contempt. It is true that “they burnt Johan of Arc” is an old litany, especially among the families of catholic tradition. It was also a familiar motto of the French right ( Action française, charles Maurras) during the period between two wars, and the distrust of the Brisitsh - especially of Chamberlain during the Munich episode- has had a role in the rise of the Vichy mentality. If we consider that such reactions are representative of a generation ago, can we say that there has been an evolution towards more hate of the British? I am not so sure, although the reactions in the French countryside to British citizen who bought secondary or first residences may have an influence (I think Tim King has talked of this a lot on this blog). They are the sign of the progressive realisation from the French of their now secondary status in the Europe of todayand of their fears abut the future. My hunch is rather this: soccer, or now rugby, is a hate boiling pot, which can make hate directed at *any* potential adversary. When Schumacher made a tackle to Battiston in the 1982 football cups, the old hate against Gemans was reborn. When Materazzi at the 2006 soccer cup insulted Zidane and the latter misbehaved in the known fashion, the Italians became the hereditary enemy. One can argue that these attitudes in sporting events help canalise the hate between nations, and that it is a mark of civilisation and European inegration that now such hates surface *only* at this level. Or one can argue that the football and rugby games are, more than any other one, potentially harmful to peace between nations… Given that it is largely manipulated by the media and politicians (who use them, like Chirac or now Sarkozy, as the Roman emperors used the game of the Circus, to soothe and divert attention from their political mistakes and the situation) we have everything to fear indeed

by: Colm-Dublin

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:19:06 +0000

French Blue while i agree with your comparisons of the two teams over the past few years i think you are forgetting that it wasn’t always that way. I dont think the team of Carling and Guscott could be accused of a lack of flair. Oh dear Tim look what you started! Anyway spare a thought for me i am Irish married to a French woman!

by: Tim

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:03:10 +0000

Reading French Blue’s comment I realise I cut the sentence about how brilliant I think last Saturday’s 2 results were - simply because they overthrew and overcame all the media hype and showed what sport is best at. As to enjoying the game……it is more years than I care to remember since I last played rugger - obligatory for the first two or three years at the school I went to - but even now I can still feel the grinding of the hip bones of the two second-row forwards on my skull (I was invariably lock) and the rough serge of their shorts taking the skin off my raw ears (we were not encouraged (allowed??) to wear head-gear) every time there was a scrum. I played in the 3rd XV and being tall was expected to win the line-out every time and usually got thumped by the opposition every time. Classic example of school killing enthusiasm. Rowing was a blissful release and tennis, now there’s poetry……

by: Autolycus

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 11:08:00 +0000

I hate to think what The Sun will make of it all…… “Hop off you Frogs” will be the least of it - especially if there’s any argument about whether X broke the rules, and what the referee did about it. But I see the Kiwis are having a go at the (English) referee - I wonder if that’s serving as an emollient?

by: French Blue

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:21:25 +0000

Only a game!!! Well, true enough it’s not a matter of life or death - it’s more important than that. (To quote someone or other about the roundball game.) Sorry, Tim, but you’re missing out on so much here. Agreed re the ‘hatred’ angle (the Aussie chief exec of their rugby union did his team no favours by banging on about hating the English), but there are ancient, primal rivalries at work here. France vs England on the rugby field is poetry vs brute strength, imagination vs organisation, flair vs doggedness. Saturday’s semi will be a clash of titans, each with a great deal to lose; the result will - like it or not, rational or not - affect the national mood. The press don’t need to talk it up - and they weren’t hyping the All Blacks by the way, New Zealand are widely held - or should I say were widely held - to be the very best rugby team in the world. On their day, they probably still are. So ‘les Bleus’ achieved something great last weekend. Their earlier shock beating by the ‘petit’ Argentines has been followed by the Argies thumping everybody else in sight, to win through to a semifinal themselves. Offering the tantalising prospect of a rematch against France, this time for the biggest trophy in their sport…if only, if only…It’s drama, it’s epic poetry, it’s the stuff of life itself! Tim, I’d suggest this Saturday you sit back and watch the semi on TV, let the thrill of it all wash over you - never mind if you find the rules baffling (a lot of rugby buffs find some of the technicalities tough to understand and I’m sure Sarko isn’t too sure about knock-ons and handling in the ruck…). Go with the flow, shout ” allez les Bleus” and pray that Arentina beat the South Africans so we end up with a final to stir the soul.

by: Jonathan

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:54:52 +0000

I sympathise. When I lived in France I was amazed at the number of people I met who would say, ‘Ah vous etes anglais? Ne vous inquietez pas, on ne vous en veut plus pour Jeanne d’Arc!’ I never really complained, as it meant they were being friendly; I just found it fantastically odd. Probably the best thing to do this week if anyone tries to wind you up is to say that you are not interested in rugby!