Comments on: France “un pays d’émigration”

by: Jean Jean

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:55:32 +0000

Well, there is a very easy way to count these people who leave France and STAY outside : the French embassies’ registries. And the numbers in them did increase a lot.
A lot is said about the folks who don’t register with the embassy but mostly people who are planning on staying for a short while don’t bother registering at the embassy. Those who do stay longer usually register.
French people who emigrate and don’t register but stay in a foreign land forever usually just blend in. I have a yet to encounter a “frenchy town” like there are so many “little Italy” or “Chinatown”, etc.
France recognizes that fact, but from the country’s perspective, these people don’t count anymore. It’d be like the UK counting Americans…

There’s something that you are missing, and Le Bras as well: France is not France because of its population. Its current population is an amalgam of very different population that came under the rule of a sovereign. The government created this country and its people, not the other way around. That why France doesn’t care about the fact that it rules over blond or creole or catholic or muslim. The only thing the government cares about is that the population must yield to its power, that’s all.

by: Tim

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:53:42 +0000

Again I think you’re misunderstanding me. I have never written “look their economy is so bad they have to leave their country to come and work in our great country”. (my country by the way is France, and has been for more than 20 years). In this most recent post I was merely reporting a French demographer’s findings on the lack of emigration figures. I’m not quite sure where burning cars come into it: yes, more cars are burnt in Britain every year than in France, but as I understand it in quite different circumstances and for entirely different reasons. I am not sure the two are comparable. Indeed I believe any direct comparisons between the countries is misleading and can be dangerous (because people jump to fallacious conclusions) and I always try my best to avoid them

by: superfrenchie

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:58:57 +0000

It’s typical French-bashing: “look, their economy is so bad that they have to leave their country to come work in our great country.” It was the same thing with the burning cars issue, until we found out that there were more cars being burned in the UK than in France.

As for the Muslims in France, I’m not sure what you’re referring to, but we now have a pretty good estimate of how many there are in France: 3%!

[Note: your article is being discussed here. Feel free to join the conversation]

by: Tim

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:36:05 +0000

I apologise if you think I am bashing anyone: that was not my intention and I can’t quite find the text which offends you. As for figures, all I gave was the questimate of how many Brits own houses and/or live in France. The thrust of my piece was Hervé Le Bras’ report on French emigration figures.

by: superfrenchie

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:39:55 +0000

Tim, a full 10% of the British population lives abroad. 200,000 live in France.

Besides, 1 in 5 say they’d rather be… French. Like, born there!

In addition, almost a third (32%) of those under 50 say they’d prefer to live in France.

And even more of them, 37%, say they’d like to move there after they retire.

Check your own numbers before bashing others!

by: Doug

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:57:17 +0000

I’m British but have lived in France for the last 8 years and as far as I know the Home Office have no record that I’m here as I’ve never told them or the Embassy although maybe they have a record from when I last renewed my passport in Paris (although they wouldn’t know if I’d since gone back to the UK. Likewise with no need for a carte de sejour I’m not sure the French authorities know I’m here (for complex reasons I still pay tax & NI in the UK as technically I’m here on a secondment )

So how reliable are any of these figures ?

by: Tim

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:32:21 +0000

Yes, that is exactly what Hervé Le Bras did - he got the figures off the host countries and compared that to the number who had “disappeared” between the 1990 census and the one ten years later. As to your second point I am not sure you’re right. Certainly my two (French) step-sons who went independently to London and one then to Toronto, are both married to non-French wives and are well-settled in careers out of France. They may come back, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
I think there is a Home Office statistic on the number of UK citizens living abroad - I’ve heard it quoted but can’t remember what it is. Whether there is one specifically for UK citizens living in France I am not sure - the figure bandied about is 500,000 houses owned by UK citizens and 300,000 living full time, but I don’t know if that’s accurate.

by: Didier

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:29:48 +0000

Hi,

About the number of french living in UK, if the precise numbers are not available in France, probably would it be able to found them in UK.
But about the people I know who spend a time in UK (to work or to study), all of them came back to France to build their family and have childrens.

How many UK citizens are now living in France and for what reasons? I doubt that you will found precise numbers even in UK.

Didier